Beijing Youth: The highest artistic concept of the Berliner Theatertreffen seems to be »innovation”. »Innovation” can surprise the audience through turning a classic drama into something »totally different”. However, being creative can also leave audience with the impression that the classic has been ruined and it’s no longer possible to recognize the origins of the work. So what is your opinion about »Innovation”? Compared with Russia and the UK’s theatrical interpretation skills applied to their cultural heritage, do you think German artists exhibit the strongest Avantgarde concepts in their theater productions?
Thomas Oberender: For the Berliner Festspiele, the institution that hosts the Theatertreffen, artistic innovation is one of the key principles. Our motto is: »Seeing what is coming”. The Berliner Festspiele invite and produce art works that cross boundaries, give us ideas of new ways to produce and experience theatre, visual art, music and installation projects. This said, the theatre performances for the Theatertreffen are being nominated by an autonomous jury. They travel around Germany, Switzerland and Austria, screen the field and nominate the productions they consider the most important from the previous season. In their selection, we can always see how tradition and innovation go together. Classic writers such as Shakespeare, Checkhov, Ibsen, Goethe, Brecht or Schiller remain very much present in the repertory. The audience knows their important plays very well; they are keen on seeing new, contemporary interpretations. So it’s not about ruining the classics, it’s about telling them from a modern point of view, and about researching their value for the future. Apart from that, there is a growing interest in different generations of artists for own creations that do not take the classics as a starting point. They collaborate with contemporary authors and create new texts, or they make a very visual or physical kind of theatre, sometimes using new technologies such as Virtual Reality. I think this combination of dealing with classics and creating ‘from scratch’ is typical for the German arts field nowadays. The horizon is very broad, and this wideness and liberty makes the landscape rich and diverse.
BY: The production »der die mann” by the director Herbert Fritsch stimulates the visual nerves of the audience intensively, to some extent like the movies of American director David Lynch. The audience may not be able to fully appreciate the intention of the director, but find it fresh, absurd and interesting. They thus have a better understanding of diverse theater. At the 2015 Wuzhen Theater Festival director Herbert Fritsch brought The Physicist to Chinese audiences. What do you think of Fritsch’s unique style, which audiences say sometimes results in what they call »weird productions ”. What kind of comments and reviews did »der die mann” receive at the 2016 Theatertreffen? What did audiences think of this production in Germany? Can we regard the body language in »der die mann” as an extension of the acting language of Charlie Chaplin?
TO: The creations of Herbert Fritsch play with words and language as well as with a unique, shiny fantasy world that surprises us every time. Fritsch creates his own rules on stage. He plays with archetypes, reminding us of Charlie Chaplin for example, and many other examples of clowns and (tragy-) comical characters of our entertainment history: Buster Keaton, Jacques Tati, Mr. Bean., Oleg Popov… Together with his actors, Fritsch creates over-the-top characters that we immediately sympathize with, but that keep on escaping our expectations. The bad guys are evil; the good guys are even more evil. Fritsch designs a brutal world of fairy tales for adults; he plays a game of attraction and repulsion. Very important for his style are the cartoonish costumes by Victoria Behr (she says: »Sick colours are more interesting.”) and the set designs he creates himself. His sets are huge, colourful spaces, in which it is difficult to keep balance. They contain traps and hidden trampolines, stairs into nowhere, big flying arrows and holes in the floor. Central to Fritsch’ aesthetics as well is the game with masks, with artificiality. Fritsch creates rituals of artificiality, and through this highly artificial and apparently no-nonsensical character, his productions feel very human and very real. His shows appeal to a very large and diverse audience. Are his shows weird? Yes, but in a way in which everybody feels himself weird sometimes. His weirdness is part of our fears, our desires, our subconscious, and our dreams. And last but not least, it is hilariously funny.
BY: Another question related to »innovation”. It seems that theatre has been combining itself with images much more often in recent years. Berliner Schaubühne’s »Miss Julie” directed by British director Katie Mitchell was performed in Beijing and Shanghai and was more like a »cinematic” drama. The whole production and editing were precisely calculated. What is your opinion of this sort of drama? Can we say that it is the result of the German drama industry in the pursuit of theatrical innovation?
TO: Katie Mitchell has also produced in Great Britain, in France and in the Netherlands, so it would be unfair to claim that her innovative style would be only possible in the German context. It is true that Katie Mitchell, over the years, has developed a very personal and exclusive style of cinematic theatre, in which high-end cutting and camerawork is as important as the live performance and the presence of the audience. In this way, she has created new standards and I respect her very much for that. It has to be said, that many other theatre makers experiment with film on stage, but also with other technologies. They interest me a lot, because they are asking crucial questions about representation, about our viewing habits and about modern forms of storytelling.
BY: In recent years Theatertreffen has paid more attention to »documentary theatre”, for example, »Tripping Stones State Theatre” (Stolpersteine Staatstheater) , »Common Ground” as well as » The Last Witness », »Situation Room” and so on, which are mostly themed on war or major historical events. What do you think of » documentary theater”? Could you share your opinion about the charm of »documentary theatre” by taking Stolpersteine Staatstheater as an example. Is » documentary theater” suitable for contemporary themes?
TO: In my view, artists can generate their inspiration from whatever source, whether it is a classical play, a modern movie script, a technological discovery, a family history, the circus tradition, scientific research, a dream, or indeed documentary material. Quite often, documentary theatre offers the possibility to relate directly to tragedies that happened in reality and to create a cathartic effect, both on the artist´s as well as on the audience’s side. Documentary theatre can help society to come to terms with traumas such as genocides, crimes, political upheavals, accidents, and so on. Therefore, it plays an extremely important role. I would even suggest that in China, documentary theatre would be able to help digest some political, economic and sociological problems that happened in the past. In terms of aesthetics, documentary theatre often works with a very direct, journalistic sort of language, which can sometimes be more accessible to a larger audience than literary language.
BY: Speaking of war, not only German theater, but also many productions made in German-speaking regions choose »War”, and not just World War II, as dramatic themes. For example, German director Luk Perceval ’s productions: »Draußen vor der Tür” and »Front” which came to China under the »Lin Zhaohua Theatre Arts Festival” and also »Common Ground” which we mentioned earlier. How do you see this phenomenon? How do audiences react or comment on these works in Germany? Do you agree that people’s reviews of the plays is related to their attitude towards history?
TO: In Germany, we are so lucky that whole generations experience a full life without having to go through a war. We are very conscious, that this is the result of hard work. You have to work for piece every day. To remember war is part of this work. War stories and dramas are part of many families in Germany and in Europe. It is important to keep them alive and to remember how thin the line between peace and war can be. As many people in Germany can still relate directly to their own family stories about war, many are very interested in the theatrical translation of these parts of our history.
Just a small correction, Luk Perceval is not a German but Belgian director – however, he works a lot in Germany. »Front” is a story combined of characters from France, Belgium, England and Germany. It shows the human vulnerability and the fear, the pain and the desires on both ends of the borders, and, thus, the absurdity of World War I.
To answer your last question, I don’t really agree. One’s attitude towards history shouldn`t be linked directly to the reaction on a specific play. One can always judge the quality or the message of any play independently of one’s general historical attitude or position.
BY: What do you see as the function of »Theatre Critics” ? China has an old saying, »People are always wiser after the event” which refers to people who like to give their opinion when an event’s outcome is known and suggest a hypothesis under which the whole even could have happened differently. Do you agree that this is a suitable description of the function of theatre critics? And how much impact can theatre critics’ opinions can on artists’ future productions and direction?
TO: In my opinion, independent theatre criticism is a key position in a healthy theatre landscape. Critics can and should offer a combination of specialized knowledge and a general overview. Critics can offer interpretations and help audiences and even theatre makers to better understand the hidden meanings in productions. Critics can help by creating a specific language with which we can talk about new forms of arts. In my opinion, good critics observe with a lot of love and curiosity, with an independent spirit and with personality, and they write without vanity or self-centeredness but with a lot of precision, sharpness, knowledge and wit. In this way, artists will consider them to be very important audience members. They will be in dialogue. In their reactions, critics can pose interesting questions which push artists to think harder about their development or about certain decisions they have made in the work.
BY: »Dramaturgie” is a system that originated in a German-speaking country. To ensure the quality of drama, works would be continuously recomposed and undergo innovation under this system, thus connecting the drama director with the theater dean by helping them to select the repertoire and providing advice to the director. This led to the deconstruction of the original works according to directors’ ideas and the prevailing situation in society. In China, »Dramaturgie” is now becoming more popular, but most of the time this function is taken on by playwrights themselves. In your opinion, do you think »Dramaturgie” can operate in other systems around the world? Are there any other functions that »Dramaturgie” provides?
TO: A good dramaturg knows how to adapt to new projects, new environments, new artistic constellations and circumstances. The specific role of dramaturgy is different in each and every production. The dramaturg can play an important role in the work of any director because he or she can be a partner in dialogue, in thinking, in deciding. In Germany, dramaturgs play a role in short-term and long-term dynamics of a theatre. In short-term, they attend rehearsals and feedback on specific results, mediate between different partners in the artistic process and the audience, write texts about the production and give explanations and introductions. In long-term, they build the artistic heart of the theatre, discuss future concepts and developments, invite directors and writers to the theatre, decide on the general course of the institution, and mediate between the different departments of the house. In my opinion, it is important that dramaturgs have a combination of a critical, productive and creative mind. It is important that as a director, you can trust them and share fears and doubts with them, before they start to invade your work.
BY: Many productions staged at Berliner Theatertreffen are the result of international cooperation. Chinese drama director Tian Qinxin’s play »Green Snake” was adapted from a Chinese folktale written more than 600 years ago. He chose to work with the German stage designer Merle Hensel. What do you think of international cooperation in a play? Are you looking forward to future cooperation between Chinese and German drama teams?
TO: Absolutely; new nationalities bring new backgrounds, traditions and experiences. International collaboration can inspire artists to question their usual working methods and offer new aesthetic possibilities. Moreover, the confrontation of different cultural backgrounds in the creation process can result in magnificent results, in which elements from both cultures come to new and surprising confrontations and meaningful results. Even if cultural differences are not explicitly tackled, it will always be one of the themes in the production. I am thinking about the series of choreographies Tian Gebing and Paper Tiger Theatre Studio creates with a mixture of Chinese and European performers, and also about the emerging theatre company Vertebra Theatre in Shanghai, which invites foreign directors to work with a Chinese team. These works are full of risks but full of potential as well , and I am curious about how these and other companies will develop their intercultural investments.
Interview with Qian Hoehne